I have no confidence that Democrats have learned their lesson (2024)

The lesson is to NOT be Israel’s puppet and to leave that to the Rethuglicans.

There were millions of young democrats telling us they wouldn’t vote for Biden or Harris or any democrat this year because of the Palestinian conflict, to many protests happening in universities during the 1st semester even in red states….

Apparently they were not joking.

R2, the students who hate Israel and stage the performative protests are not representative of young people as a whole.

For all of the "millions" of young people who hate Israel there are millions of other young voters who know that there is a war going on and are disgusted by the videos of people ripping down posters of kidnapped Americans and kidnapped babies.

If you want the Democrats to appease a small but very vocal minority of the country then enjoy the rest of your life under the Republicans.

I said this in another topic, but I'm getting a bit sick of seeing people saying Democrats need to essentially become more right wing. Or "well, if you insult the American people this is what happens!"

Did Trump or MAGA change following their 2020 defeat? Nope. Yet they still won in 2024.

The left have a problem with immigration in that they think ANY criticism of it is racist.

Someone posted in another thread that there were over a million illegal workers in the US and the economy would grind to a halt if they were all deported.

So the companies knowingly employing illegal migrants on the cheap do so knowing they could employ actual American nationals but don't because then they'd have to comply with employment legislation? And who is impacted mostly by this? Maybe the Latino voters who went to Trump?

Employment rights are a left wing issue - it's not difficult to piece together a policy on this that puts workers first.

[quote]The left have a problem with immigration in that they think ANY criticism of it is racist.

I kind of agree, but that's mostly because the majority of anti immigration rhetoric does have at least a whiff of prejudice at its heart. Much of it can be boiled down to: "you're not like me, you don't belong here like I do".

And I think it annoys people even more when it comes from those who are either immigrants or children of immigrants because it has a "I was happy to benefit from it, but let's raise the drawbridge now, because I don't want others here" feeling to it.

R10 thanks for articulating so well why people who think of themselves as liberal and progressive are really quite not as liberal as they think.

You don't see Latinos (for example) as American in the same way you are American. Whereas they see themselves as American in the same way you are. Essentially you think they should be grateful for being allowed to live in America which is why there was so much anger at a huge percentage of Latinos voting Republican.

A lot of left wing people think Latinos should have a particular view on a policy because of who their grandparents were, but wouldn't expect white people to vote based on who their grandparents were.

Why shouldn't the grand children of legal migrants consider illegal immigration to be bad, when it directly impacts their employment prospects?

r11 White liberals have really shown their true colors with how they've lashed out at Latinos, Arabs, and Black people since Tuesday. Especially all over DL. It's been interesting to witness because I've been saying for years that White liberals are just as racist because of how much they look down on us as pathetic and helpless. They think we need them and should be "grateful" for their supposed "allyship." Then when they see a lot of us not "falling in line" their "racist slips" start showing.

DL has been on one since the election and it's fucking gross, but I am not surprised. It's mostly White dudes on here. I'm not surprised in the slightest.

I agree Mao.

I’m British and see the same thing here and the abuse directed at Black and Asian conservatives who are called race traitors because they consider themselves British first. And it’s not as if their bad politics can’t be challenged easily.

Trump is proud of Scottish heritage, Biden is proud of Irish heritage, but Scottish and Irish American aren’t told to vote certain way.

R11 Well, first of all I'm not American (nor do I live there), so that's irrelevant to my comment. And I wasn't talking solely about illegal immigration - some legal immigrants are also against legal immigration because they see it as competition.

That's not to say they're completely against any immigration of course, but they're often the first to speak up about drastically reducing numbers, even if they themselves benefited from it. Which just seems incredibly selfish to me.

[quote]sweetheart without white liberals there would be no inmigrants

Incorrect. Reagan's policies actually helped to spearhead both legal and illegal immigration in this country with Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. Try again, r16.

[quote]no gay marriage, no abortion rights and the lists goes on and on and on.

None of these are exclusively race issues. That's your problem. You see yourselves as "our saviors" and it's time out for that. Sit down. Be humble.

We can’t learn any lesson a week after the election. That’s not how any of this works.

We don’t know what 2026 or 2028 will look like. There might be whole new coalitions. In 2022, bo one would have predicted Israel/Palestine would threaten to rip apart the Democrats. 2026 may be about hyper inflation or economic collapse or the lack of Social Security funding that will automatically cut benefits. People who are truly suffering are less willing to slop up the bullshit Republicans have been serving.

Aside from what’s going on outside our country m,

It’s the economy, stupid! People are having a hard time with rent, groceries, and making ends meet. We have a generation that’s not going to have children, be able to buy a home, or have one dependable income job they can rely on and still have something left over to put in savings.

Trump is promising a chicken for every pot. (Eyeroll)

The immigration issue, trans agenda, and student loan forgiveness threw gasoline onto what was already a dumpster fire of an election. These are all issues that are sticking points with no clear solution from either party.

At least two generations have been indoctrinated. They will never see the truth, OP, even if you held their hand and showed the truth to them. The thousands of tantrum videos, the threats to kill people, the buzz cuts, the outrageous grandiosity are all evidence of people who have lost their grip on reality. They can't be saved.

Could you ever imagine adults in the past, up until approximately the year 2000 acting so blatantly, publicly and proudly like 10 year olds? I can't.

- Yuri Bezmenov

R10 It’s not.

From NYC to Massachusetts, the illegals and “asylum seekers” have disenfranchised the homeless, women who need shelter, and the low income neighborhoods where there’s a minority population.

Massachusetts dumping the migrants in Roxbury, the biggest black neighborhood in Boston, and you’re saying it’s construed as racism to further disenfranchise black neighborhoods? But according to white liberals, migrants will “flourish” these black communities with cheap labor and balance the economy.

This is ridiculous!

I guess the lesson you are talking about is:

Learn to lie and cheat like the republicans. Shamelessly mislead and use their supporters for their own personal gain. Create a propaganda machine to keep their followers in a delusional reality. Accumulate the kind of wealth that no one could ever spend in their (or any of their descendants) lifetime. And happily destroy the environment so that it becomes unlivable.

[quote] I gave $250 to Kamala and they spent 1M on Oprah and much more on other celebrities. I am pissed.

r21, Where is this information you're asserting here coming from?

Are there official, authentic Harris campaign screen shots of their Excel budget that show those expenditures?

The reason I'm curious is because you're the 2nd person besides a relative of mine who asked me about whether it's true that all of the A List celebrities (about whose presence throughout the Harris campaign I have my own ambivalent reaction to) were paid to endorse and for their presence.

I don't believe that, but I'm open to weighing that possibility it if there are some facts supporting it.

Otherwise, it's just more rumors spread by Trump voters who need to persuade themselves that they didn't just vote for the In-Coming Dictator, but that it's all the Democrats' fault.

Based on the comments I've seen on DL since election day, no one has learned much.

I'll take one issue (there are many) for now.

Democrats aren't trusted by a lot of minorities anymore. The DL instinct is to rant and rage at them and say they're stupid and should all be deported. (And that's some of the nicer stuff said!)

But the reality is that they just don't see the Democrats as speaking for them and I can explain why. It's not that hard. Democrats think they understand minority voters because they've been told a lot of shit by PhDs in areas that are, frankly, of questionable merit such as gender, black, latino, etc. studies.

Latinos do not think of themselves all as Latino. They certainly don't think of themselves as latinx or any other term popular in academia. They or their ancestors have come from a wide variety of countries. Just because they have darker skin and know Spanish doesn't make them all think of themselves as latinx fighting the oppressive white man. Those are the thoughts of the latina Ivy grad in latinx studies. Not of the 99% of other Latinos.

Regular blacks and latinos do not think of themselves as BIPOC. Another stupid term. This time coming from academics and activists on the Internet. Many of them white. Blacks do not see their struggle as identical to that of Latins, Asians, or any other group. Same for all these people. Ideas are being spoken for them that they do not actually relate to at all.

Now, you may say, ok, they may not like some of those terms and ideas, but surely that can't be enough to change a vote given the bigger picture?

The issue is that over time these things build up and that minority voter loses trust in the Democrats, especially when their financial situation is not improving, the Democrats are pushing stuff that is crazy to them (trans women in women's bathrooms), and other people are not talking like the usual politician (Trump). And what has been the Democratic response to this shift? Continued assumption that the minority vote is OWED to them because only they and they alone truly understand their plight and that any betrayal justifies lashing out with some of the most racist shit I've heard in some time.

That's just one issue.

Since Tuesday Datalounge has turned against women, “liberals” and sung the praises of conservatives. We’re supposed to go even further right than MAGA in 2028. Become Maggie Thatcher with the mouth of Don Rickles Run the grand wizard and put him on Joe Rogan.’

If you people were Dems until Tuesday I’d write this off to a stage of grief.

But I’m not convinced that the reaction is coming from people who were here all along. It seems we’ve been flooded with new posters who have an agenda . I’ve had 2 suspensions since Tuesday. I see many of us OGs have too including the guy who starts the MSNBC threads.

[quote] Latinos do not think of themselves all as Latino. They certainly don't think of themselves as latinx or any other term popular in academia. They or their ancestors have come from a wide variety of countries. Just because they have darker skin and know Spanish doesn't make them all think of themselves as latinx fighting the oppressive white man. Those are the thoughts of the latina Ivy grad in latinx studies. Not of the 99% of other Latinos.

Latinos = Americans

Everybody sees what they want to see in the election results so “the lesson” does not exist.

My lesson? Incumbents don’t get re-elected after inflation.

That’s all.

No need to shift policies at all. Dems should stand for exactly what they stand for.

Wait two years, after Trump and the GOP overreach, and regain congressional power.

When do you ever see the GOP shift policies? Never, and here we are

[quote]And what has been the Democratic response to this shift? Continued assumption that the minority vote is OWED to them because only they and they alone truly understand their plight and that any betrayal justifies lashing out with some of the most racist shit I've heard in some time.

Period. r28 and r29 get it. Tuesday's results are a direct response to Democratic arrogance with regards to racial minorities.

Kendrick said it best, "Sometimes, you gotta pop out and show niggas."

Learn from your mistakes, regroup, and make flipping the script in 2026 midterms the goal. That's all you can do at this point.

[quote]The reason I'm curious is because you're the 2nd person besides a relative of mine who asked me about whether it's true that all of the A List celebrities (about whose presence throughout the Harris campaign I have my own ambivalent reaction to) were paid to endorse and for their presence.

Her campaign blew through over a billion dollars and remains nearly 20 million in debt according to Lindy Li.

"Another spending area likely to raise eyebrows is the $15 million the Harris campaign spent on event production, which went in part toward star-powered musical performances at rallies during the lead-up to the election, featuring the likes of Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Christina Aguilera, and Ricky Martin."

"Harris paid $1 million to Harpo, a production company owned by Oprah Winfrey, who emerged as one of the vice president’s top celebrity allies, appearing at a town hall in September and the campaign’s final pre-election rally, in Philadelphia."

-The Daily Beast - Nov. 9 2024

Here are some lessons that Democrats should learn from last Tuesday:

1) Shut off cable news.

2) Maybe it's time to stop being the adults in the room

3) You can't save everybody because most of them don't want to be saved

4) White women are going to always choose their own comfort

5) White liberals, most Latinos are not who you think they are

6) White liberals, black people are more politically savvy and not as monolithic as you think.

[Quote] You can't save everybody because most of them don't want to be saved

Love this. But one way we build coalitions is to fight for each other’s issues.

R18 they are not our saviors but they are our allies. I’m wait until gay rights are taken way and we get another pro8 etc. That is when your chinese ass will want white liberals and liberals in general to come out in large numbers in support.

Why empower our enemies instead of our allies? Our you going to do well with republicans? I doubt it.

I’m a white Cuban Latino. My parents live in freaking miami right next to allapatah and in her building for seniors above 65, if you find two blacks living there is too much. Why? Because the puerto rucan manager is a racist, and she does not want blacks living there.

My friend is renting an efficiency to a young woman that works for a pharmaceutical company in Miami. She said that she’s had gay guys applying to the job with outstanding experience and skill and if they are a little bit afeminate they do not get the job. She has seen hiring prejudice against gay men. My gay cousin’s friend is gay, recently came from Cuba. He began a temporary job in a flower warehouse, he only lasted two days. He knew it was because of the way he talks he just sensed that the supervisor did not like him.

Wait and see the horror that are about to be experienced by gays and blacks with maga, racist and religious nuts in power . Women will be find trust me.

Why why why? That is my question, why why why, how come, how is it possible that people actually put all of their well being on the hands of their very own enemies how do not want any good for you.

Chinito, this gay white Latino, might experience homophobia and mmmm? perhaps a little bit of xenophobia here and there, but racism, nope, nope. I can literally be sitting right next to nazis that they won’t even think I’m Latino. But those eyes!! Oh my god those eyes of yours, will make you such a nice target as if you were shouting from the top of lungs shoot me shoot me I’m here guys!!!

"When they go low, we go high ".

With attitude you're on a hiding to nowhere.

From Jack E Smith -

I, like many of you, have been contemplating our predicament since election night.

We are in a losing war for our democracy and I'm not sure we collectively know who our true adversary is.

It's not the voting blocks...white women, Latinos, Gen X. It's not MAGA. It's not even Trump.

It's an insidious power that has been hiding in the shadows for some time...and when the stakes were at their highest in this election, it fully revealed itself.

The American Oligarchy.

They control our Supreme Court, much of Congress, and the flow of information to the masses via legacy, mainstream and social media.

They decide the national conversation, how to keep us at each other's throats while they continue to amass wealth and power completely unchecked.

They put their thumbs on the scale of justice and poured billions into this election. They chose Trump because he was desperate and would capitulate to their demands. They chose a running mate to replace him in case he became too unhinged to control.

Consider how many disqualifying facts about Trump never saw the light of day...or didn't get the attention they deserved...or got drowned out by propaganda. They took a mentally spent buffoon and presented him as a hero to the masses.

Despite Biden successfully steering us out of a global recession and strengthening our economy, they maintained the national tone about the price of groceries being too high. Despite Trump's obvious mental decline, their media outlets remained reticent to press the issue.

We struggle to unite as a nation because they're too good at keeping us divided. We are drowning in disinformation because they control all of it.

They have successfully created imaginary villains for us to fight...each other.

It seems like we are a democracy careening towards fascism, when the reality is they're using the specter of fascism to keep us on edge while they turn America into a compliant oligarchy.

Whether you are a democrat, republican, independent or MAGA, we have a common foe.

Some of us just don't know it yet.

Give them time OP. It's only been a week since the election. and it's going to take time for them to stop pointing fingers, arguing with one another and blaming voters.

One suggestion: stop calling voters deplorables, racists, misogynists, Nazis . . .

R45 The author of that article is clueless.

I love this:

"Despite Biden successfully steering us out of a global recession and strengthening our economy, they maintained the national tone about the price of groceries being too high. Despite Trump's obvious mental decline, their media outlets remained reticent to press the issue."

Uh..."they maintained the national tone about the price of groceries being too high."?

Prices were/are too high. And people didn't need Trump to tell them that.

And "Despite Trump's obvious mental decline, their media outlets remained reticent to press the issue."

Same for Biden....the fucking PRESIDENT....and his mental decline.

[quote]That is when your chinese ass

I'm Black. And a woman.

[quote]I’m a white Cuban

We are not the same, sir.

And if you think we're a monolith, r43, you aren't an ally. We're not your political puppets and our votes (which are owed to no one red or blue), as you can see, do matter. Stop acting like you understand our concerns. You are no better. Because if you lash out at us when we don't do what you want us to do, congratulations, you're as bad as the White conservatives. The only difference is they're racism is more overt well, that was the case until Tuesday, now you're all losing your gotdamn minds. We see you. Trust.

White liberals are basically the "#niceguys" meme personified. All peaches and cream until they're rejected then WATCH OUT. Swear to god.

[quote]Why shouldn't the grand children of legal migrants consider illegal immigration to be bad, when it directly impacts their employment prospects?

What the FUCK? Please read this back to yourself.

I once worked with an Italian woman (we were both college lecturers) and we went out for a drink one time and got talking politics. She was mid life, 50s, and told me her Italian mother in law was very right wing - to the right of Trump - because, when this woman was a child in the 1920s she and her siblings had no shoes, no money for shoes, and when Mussolini got into power he distributed shoes.

That's the basis on which many people decide their vote. Will the candidate put shoes on my feet, and food in my cupboard. That's the level of focus for millions of Americans, who are poor, working poor, just surviving. Look at the Trump rally attendees. Look at their clothes. Even in November many had no coat or padded vest, just a hoodie. Some just wore leggings, and a t shirt. The cheapest clothing you can get. And Trump was telling stories about how he heard a woman went to the counter either three apples and had to take one apple back because she could only afford two. Doesn't matter if that's a true story. Many in the crowd could relate to having to put some food items back on the shelf. If you don't have enough for a coat or weatherproof shoes or food you don't care much about Jennifer Lopez in Dior couture telling you how to vote.

Running on how Trump is going to bring in fascism only to campaign with a woman who voted with Trump 93% of the time was asinine.

Then praising her father, who was responsible for the most destructive, heinous Republican administration until Trump came along, was equally ridiculous.

Her saying she wanted to put a Republican in her cabinet was the icing on the downturn. She was riding high until she went into overdrive trying to get votes from people who were never seriously considering voting for her. And depleting the goodwill she had among democrats and independents in the process.

You can't spend eight years complaining about how racist, misogynistic, homophobic and fascist Republicans are only to turn around and embrace them. Democrats STILL have not learned this lesson. I don't know who in her party thought that was a winning strategy, but they couldn't have been more wrong.

And I agree with the celebrity aspect. Having your big moment at the DNC obscured by rumors of a Taylor Swift/Beyonce appearance should have been a optimum moment of reflection and she should have pulled back from it, but she wound up going even further. Big mistake.

I don’t like Eddie Glaude but he’s absolutely correct.

I want the White, Vote Looter Criminal in charge. I’ll tell myself and everybody else it’s because of the economy. What I won’t admit to myself and out loud is no fucking way will I see a black woman as the POTUS.

[quote]Dr. Eddie Glaude, superbly, summed it up.

Man is he clueless and oh so arrogant.

[quote]What I won’t admit to myself and out loud is no fucking way will I see a black woman as the POTUS.

Bullshit.

Barack Hussein Obama, a black man, won the Presidency twice.

And all polling showed that Michelle Obama would have beat Trump easily.

AND the fact Trump outperformed expectations with all minority groups.

[Quote]no fucking way will I see a black woman as the POTUS

You're supposed to vote on their policies, not gicevthem a vote as a pat on the head for their racial identity or sex. Trump has appointed the first female White House Chief of Staff. Are you celebrating her appointment as a victory for gender equality? The very right-wing party in the UK has just appointed its fourth female leader. She's black, and very right-wing.

I have absolutely no confidence that the asshole commonly known as DeFucktardo, aka OP, will ever learn his lesson that he's not the political genius and strategist he seems to think he is.

Furthermore, I have absolutely no confidence that DeFuctardo, aka OP, is ever going to die in a grease fire.

Maybe the real lesson needs to be that we have to find a non-condescending way to persuade the uninformed.

A high school friend just posted what she called a peer reviewed study that showed that the Covid-19 vaccine increases strokes. It is actually not peer reviewed, and draws solely on VAERS data- which is raw, unverified reporting by anyone or any doctor to HHS. It doesn’t show correlation - if I OD’d and died of a heart attack after getting the vaccine, it might be reported as a heart attack after the vaccine. So the data is sketchy and who knows if anti-vaxxers are submitting.

This friend is bright. She used to live in SF and protested against Trump. Now she’s 100% in via RFK Jr.

I don’t have the amount of effort to gently persuade someone with calling her an idiot or a cultist. She would lash back and dig in deeper,

We face the same challenges. Yes, there is post-Covid inflation. Yes, the border is a problem. Trump makes it easy and simple and blames someone else.

Well, here we go again.

You're wrong about Democrats "not serving their constituents", even the very dumbest should see that if they've bothered to look at the historic measures taken up by Democrats. The voters seem to think these things happen by themselves!

The unlearned lesson is the slavish devotion to massive vote losers like the attachment to Gaza/Muslim terrorists, and the toxic Trans Agenda. Both are rightly seen by average voters are nonsensical and poisoning the reputation of actual liberal progress.

Americans see government as a sort of rap video, or a poster you'd hang on your bedroom wall. They rhapsodize a mythical "badass" vibe while strangling their own economics and freedoms because they are just that brand of stupid.

Remember, the average American gets all of their political awareness from Facebook and TikTok, which are owned by mega billionaires or our foreign enemies/rivals. The results are predictable.

R48 you are not Chinese? You are black?? ufff, even worse.

of course we are not the same, the difference between you and me is that when white supremacists bring back black and white apartheid you gonna be sitting at the back of the bus honey.

A black woman and still supporting the agenda of white supremacist and in a gay site to boot. You should be ashamed of you.

[quote] you gonna be sitting at the back of the bus

r67 Yeah, we're not falling for the scare tactics anymore, babes. Either come correct with something substantial and stop embracing crazy mess like men in women's spaces, refusing to define what a woman is, chemically castrating and confusing kids, sending billions of dollars to other countries to fund endless wars, putting up illegals in fancy hotels and issuing prepaid cards to buy food, while our people stay struggling or keep losing elections. We're not with the bullshit, anymore. Make a decision.

Oh, and knock it off with using our racial identity to condescendingly put us down when we don't fall in line like how you want us to. That's not working anymore, either. Specifically with Black men. Truth hurts, I get it. But it is what it is. Calling Trump a fascist, felonious, dictator obviously didn't work, so look inward, fix the damn Democratic Party, and have this shit straightened out by 2026.

Note that mao, just like the Palestinian activists, is taking bold stances with the people who will feel guilt, not where it will make a real difference. How often did Trump have to answer activists?

Those who come from a place of powerless often like to attack their allies. Loading up the trains but never considering what happens when they get to the last car.

[quote]Those who come from a place of powerless often like to attack their allies.

r72 We're not powerless. I'm not powerless. And it was probably about the 2nd hard "R" dropped on this stupid site where I finally said, "fuck this shit" and decided to really go off on you people.

We are not the ones in power. We’re literally raging at the wind and waiting for the storm to pass. You attack the losers rather than siding with the winners. You expect them to be perfect, and expect zilch from the people who are driving this.

There is plenty of time for Democrats to soul search. We will change and probably won’t have to worry about pronouns or immigrants or micro aggressions again. Thing is - these were always distractions used for political purposes. Just like kicking people when they’re down.

Agreed, r76.

I’m spent, heartsick and dealing with being wrong.

Whatever VP Harris’s drawbacks were they were a quark next to the gargantuan drawbacks of Trump, especially after January 6th.

I was wrong to think Americans would reject Trump.

And now, I’m out, too. I don’t have the heart for it anymore.

[quote]We're not powerless. I'm not powerless. And it was probably about the 2nd hard "R" dropped on this stupid site where I finally said, "fuck this shit" and decided to really go off on you people.

Hey Teacake aka Mao you don't run this place. Fuck right off and smoke another rock.

The only real hope over the next few elections for the Dems is that the country crashes and burns and things get really bad.

You know the exact same thing the enemies of America always hope will happen.

The gop are going to fix things so a dem win soon is going to be really difficult. There was only one truly bad outcome from this election that we may never be able to over turn—- a complete fucking sweep.

The SC is theirs for the rest of your life. We have God and goodness on our side they are just smarter tougher meaner and more determined.

Now watch all the dem infighting that’s going to happen.

There is no lesson to learn but one: Propaganda works and Americans collectively suck. I will do no soul searching nor should anyone else. We did all this bullshit 8 years ago. "White working class", too much LGBT, too much city talk, talk to salt of the earth, Cletus Safaris to the grease hold diners...

Fuck that bullshit. After 8 years of that nonsense, Harris runs a campaign designed to speak to the dignity of work and the decency of people in this country, and this country turned around and really revealed itself to the world as indecent.

To hell with soul searching. And Death to stupid little OPs like this one trolling around!!!!

[quote] The only real hope over the next few elections for the Dems is that the country crashes and burns and things get really bad.

Wow. Thank you for wishing us all the worst.

OP, judging from this astounding lack of common sense and most of the answers here, your vote of no confidence is completely justified. We're doomed.

[quote]The only real hope over the next few elections for the Dems is that the country crashes and burns and things get really bad.

What a bizarre "hope" to have. So you hope for the worst so that you can be proven right and get back into power? This is not normal.

The OP's post seems to assume that the right have something to teach, and I do not think that's true. It's presumptuous.

Winning an election is not a validation of their beliefs.

Even with the bad polling in 2016, the aggregate polling in 2024 was far, far worse.

Nobody knows anything.

The only truly terrifying thing about Trump is that he is a walking national security risk. I guess we are going back to our undercover operatives being killed by our enemies at a much higher rate, but yeah, those eggs were so expensive in 2022!

A lesson from the UK

Labour under Jeremy Corbyn was a fucking horrible place. The online activists loved telling critics, life long Labour members and voters, to fuck off an join the Tories. And they did, and voted Tory. Labour had their worst election result in 2019.

And 4 months ago Labour doubled the number of parliamentary seats to win a landslide majority. The implosion of the Tories helped but this is how they did it:

1. They accepted the divisive Brexit result, i.e. the outcome of a referendum. This didn't please everyone but it was essential to rebuild bridges.

2. It made tremendous efforts to win back the working class vote by going out of their way to talk directly to them on things that mattered. Housing was discussed more than university tuition.

3. It realised the identify politics stuff wasn't popular away from a fringe movement so reversed the policies without admitting they had changed. That led to charges Labour were transphobic and were going to ban trans people from using toilets as one person told me but it worked. On race as well there didn't seem much "us and them". In areas with large muslim populations there was a sustained campaign against Labour and Islamist candidates won several seats. Bad for the country this was good for Labour as it distanced themselves from the extremist vote. Compare that to Nicola Sturgeon who was hanging outside mosques with SNP/Palestine flag leaflets - the SNP lost 80% of their seats.

4. The people who made Labour unpopular left or were kicked out of the party. Cutting Jeremy Corbyn and moving on was vital and people like Owen Jones, one of the most hated men in Britain, quit and used most of his Guardian articles to criticise Labour.

5. There were plenty of celebrity endorsements but Labour made more of a focus on endorsements from ordinary people. or those in particular roles - cancer patients, business leaders, environmental people. I think a video from Elton John introducing a speech was the most extravagant thing.

6. CRIME IS BAD. Don't make excuses for people. More police is good. The military is good.

7. There was optimism. Plenty of criticism of the Tories but VOTE FOR US BECAUSE THINGS CAN BE BETTER.

[quote] And 4 months ago Labour doubled the number of parliamentary seats to win a landslide majority.

They did that, but got only 34% of the voters to vote for them. Because of the system in the UK, they could turn 34% support into a “landslide”.

If the Democrats were to get the same level of support in the U.S., with it’s two party system, there would be Republican supermajorities in D.C. and across the country.

How the Dems will win by following the Brit’s:

Accept what the GOP has done don’t fight it, be tough on crime, be pro police, and pro military., kick out the unpopular Dems, don’t do identify politics like the blacks, gays ,trans, Hispanic, stuff .

And get endorsements from people nobody knows

That does sound like a plan. I can feel my excitement for 2028 building already.

Although brilliant might be a touch too far :-)

[quote]Mao denies being teacake yet writes exactly like teacake.

He is unable to change his style of writing. You always know when it's him. If only the crack his mother smoked in the 80s had caused her to be infertile. Alas, it wasn't meant to be.

[quote]They did that, but got only 34% of the voters to vote for them. Because of the system in the UK, they could turn 34% support into a “landslide”. If the Democrats were to get the same level of support in the U.S., with it’s two party system, there would be Republican supermajorities in D.C. and across the country.

Labour won a landslide based on the voting system they were presented with. Their vote share increased marginally but was more effective as it wasn't centred in safe seats.

if the Democrats want to run a campaign that appeals to core voters in California and New York then that's just swell.

Or they can look at a nationwide campaign that clocks up the electoral college numbers so they can cross the line into the White House.

[quote]people like Owen Jones, one of the most hated men in Britain, quit and used most of his Guardian articles to criticise Labour.

That sniveling little virtue signaling twat should be ass raped by a gang of sweaty, swarthy Arabs.

[quote]Accept what the GOP has done don’t fight it, be tough on crime, be pro police, and pro military., kick out the unpopular Dems, don’t do identify politics like the blacks, gays ,trans, Hispanic, stuff .

A lot of voters like low crime levels and think the police do a hard job and need support. Kicking out Ilhan "Some people did something" Omar might lose some voters but would broaden the appeal to swing voters. And appealing to voters AS A WHOLE and rather speaking to different sections helps bring about a sense of unity over division.

[quote]And get endorsements from people nobody knows

I get why Beyonce wanted to speak at a Texas rally, but maybe if you want to appeal to a wider base get someone well known in Texas who did something remarkable like setting up a successful company or invented something or did something heroic? Maybe a firefighter who saved someone from a burning building and got lung cancer and was treated with Obamacare? That kind of story.

[quote] Labour won a landslide based on the voting system they were presented with.

They were able to get only 34% of the UK voters to vote for them. 66% voted for a different party. In the U.S., having 66% of the country voting against you would be a huge defeat. The Democrats can’t temporarily borrow the UK system.

R103 oh I realize a lot of voters support that sort of thing. And I am one of them.

I come from a family of military, firefighters, police. But give me a break this is not the Democratic Party not close. And there is no Democratic Party without identify politics, The party can’t function without minority and female support and gays

The Dems are not becoming the moderate party. They likely will go farther left. That is where the energy and the anger will be..

If the country flounders big time the Dems have a chance in 4 years, That is their only reasonable chance. If the country does reasonably well , at least as well as it has under Joe——the Dems will have no fucking chance no matter what they do.

[quote]They were able to get only 34% of the UK voters to vote for them. 66% voted for a different party. In the U.S., having 66% of the country voting against you would be a huge defeat. The Democrats can’t temporarily borrow the UK system.

YOU'RE NOT LISTENING SWEETHEART.

Labour broadened its appeal and ran an effective campaign that spread its votes around the country rather than clocking them up in Labour strongholds.

They looked at the voting system and planned around it.

If the Democrats want to carry on talking to California and New York voters then that's great, but broaden the message to the swing states and beyond. That might reduce the vote share in CA and NY as they lose some left wing voters to a protest candidate but if they still win CA and NY and take Pennsylvania then that's a success.

Well there's nowt as blind as folk who won't see R108.

Enjoy life under Trump xx

[quote] “We as Democrats are more concerned about offending people and just getting all our words right than actually having legitimate, serious debates about issues that matter,” Moulton said. “And I hate to say it, but if you look at exit polls ... the number-one issue for swing voters who chose Trump was actually the feeling that Kamala [Harris] was more concerned about trans issues than the middle class. So we ignore this at our peril.

[quote] “If we can’t come up with a position that the majority of Americans can buy into and agree with — a reasonable, rational position — then guess who’s going to win this debate?” Moulton added. “It’s going to be the Republicans, with their radical agenda that absolutely will take away rights from minorities all across the country. Civil rights and access to health care for trans people. Maybe the right to marry for gays — something that the majority of Americans agree with, but that the Republicans have made clear they want to take away.

[quote] “There are a lot of rights that are going to be imperiled here, if we don’t have a more cogent response. And we can’t have a reasonable position if we’re not even allowed to discuss it.”

R110 Reforming?

There will be no sports issue soon in a few months at most this will be all settled. It won’t matter a damn what Dems think about it then.

MAGA if they accomplish nothing else will take care of this one.

[quote] There will be no sports issue soon in a few months at most this will be all settled.

That would certainly be enormously beneficial for the Democrats to have the Republicans take care of the issue for them, but it would have been good for the Democratic Party to show that it could reform itself by changing its position.

[quote]That would certainly be enormously beneficial for the Democrats to have the Republicans take care of the issue for them, but it would have been good for the Democratic Party to show that it could reform itself by changing its position.

Except Ilhan Omar, AOC, Pramila Jayapal will fight it as hard as they can.

Regarding the T issue... there is a biological difference between what these men want to be and what they actually are and that is a physical limitation that exists in reality. Because of that, there are of those of us, me included, who will never accept that trans women are actually women anymore than we will accept that the king is made of glass. And it's terribly unfair to women to have them in women's sports.

But OK, you object, there aren't that many of these people out there, so why does it matter? Because it's being DEMANDED to accept this idea. To state pronouns to make them feel better, to pretend that there is no difference, to be cool with this denial of objective reality. This is not just a matter of leaving them alone. Of course no one should be harassed for what is in their head or how they dress. No issue with that. It's the fact that it is being demanded of us to accept that which is just not so or else we are considered hateful bigots. All of it feels very 1984-ish given the reality of the situation. It's not a moral issue. It's about biology and denial of reality.

If the Dems wanted to place a man in a dress in a high admin position they needed to find men that did not look like a man wearing a women’s dress and calling himself a she.

They should have gone up the road to Delaware. The new trans state rep is actually a cutie. And she comes across not as a man wearing a women’s dress.

Optics do count

It’s too late now we are fucked boom boom long time as they said in icorps back in the day,

The Dems only lesson is to wait two years and then another two. The GOP will destroy itself.

Why do we never ask the GOP to “learn” any lesson?

Well, yes we just got knocked back to 2016, losing a little more ground in the process. But Trump’s first term ended with the economy in shambles, a public health crisis, his supporters smearing feces in the Capitol, and a ballooned debt and deficit. As always with Trump, they fall for the show until it finally leaves them broke.

Right now, the long term bond market is not on board with Trump’s proposed spending and tariffs. These are set by the market, not Jerome Powell. Because of this, and despite a lower Fed rate, mortgage rates just went UP.

Which means Gen Z can keep sleeping in their Gen X parents basements. Maybe they can blame it on the trans or the migrants They certainly will never blame it on Elon or Trump.

[quote] The Dems are not becoming the moderate party. They likely will go farther left. That is where the energy and the anger will be..

And we can now see where that will get them.

[Quote] And all polling showed that Michelle Obama would have beat Trump easily.

R57 Bullshit! Polls mean nothing!

Michelle could have run with Kamala as VP and then Michelle could have resigned because she didn't want it anyway and then Kamala could have been President and then she could have appointed Gavin Newsom her new VP and Pete would Secretary of State/Chief of Staff and tonight's guest.

Did I forget anything?

[Quote] The Dems are not becoming the moderate party. They likely will go farther left. That is where the energy and the anger will be..

and their popularity will go further south!

I agree with R127, she would have been a big motivator for black people and the coasts, but by the end of the campaign, I'm not sure she would have done any better than the Vice President in the PA and WI.

People seem to love her now, but I remember the way some democrats were treating her back in 2007/8.

Michelle's speech, speaking about her mother, at the DNC: "She and my father didn’t aspire to be wealthy—in fact, they were suspicious of folks who took more than they needed."

What a phony.

R83 Propaganda doesn’t always work though because the left has labeled Trump and his supporters as all racists, misogynists, bigots, homophobes, monsters, and evil villains who are going to all going to throw all minority groups into concentration camps and turn the US into a white version of Afghanistan and a little bit of Nazi Germany.

They’ve been saying that for almost 10 years.

Oh, I agree...the centrist Dems will continue to control the party and complete its descent into the ground.

I think they continue to hope that "sensible" Republicans will come to their way of thinking.

They'll continue to ignore the working class and leftist voters while courting the college educated, urban elites who don't win elections

The 99 Cent Store is now $1.25

Outrageous! It's the economy, stupid.

[quote] I kind of agree, but that's mostly because the majority of anti immigration rhetoric does have at least a whiff of prejudice at its heart. Much of it can be boiled down to: "you're not like me, you don't belong here like I do".

It is prejudice, perhaps even racism. Black Americans are multi-generational Americans. Many can trace their American lineage back to the 18th century. But we're still being told to "go back to Africa" by the descendants of 20th century immigrants. The impression that this is a White European nation is the basis of anti-immigration sentiment. No one tells Elon Musk to go back to Africa.

This thread caption assumes there is a lesson for Democrats to learn. There is not. You can lead a horse to water...

Trump could and did say anything, regardless of truth or falsity, to frighten, cajole, embolden and galvanize his cult of personality. Whereas Democrats are held to exacting standards of truth, the ridiculously hypocritical reaction to Walz's military service record is just one example. Americans are like a battered spouse too afraid to leave their abuser.

[quote] It’s the economy, stupid!

Hardly. Social issues is what people were voting upon and this includes illegals and crime. The economy is doing great. Inflation is the problem. However, Trump has no policy except tariffs which will make things even worse and Elon said to expect financial hardships during Trump’s term. What’s coming out now is that Americans are fed up with the woke crap. The anti-trans sealed Kamala’s fate. She’s for the They/Them and wants Americans to pay for sex changes for criminals and illegals.

The threat about males in women's sports thread got deleted like all the others about sex/gender clashes.

Meanwhile John Oliver has restated his support for males in female sports. For a lot of men who think they are progressive this is a fight they are not going to let the Democrats walk way from.

R131 the Dems should consider running the future Mr Taylor Swift a real man not someone who,plays a real man in the movies.

Don’t laugh it’s a better idea than Mrs Obama or Harris

[quote] The economy is doing great. Inflation is the problem. However, Trump has no policy except tariffs which will make things even worse and Elon said to expect financial hardships during Trump’s term.

If people were voting on the economy, they weren’t voting based on future policy. They were voting for the candidate who agreed with them that the economy was bad and accumulated inflation is still terrible, and against the candidate who said that the economy is good and inflation is under control. Also, people wanted to punish the administration under which they have suffered so much with the horrible inflation.

Look, the number of Americans who voted for that buffoon rose among all ethnic, religious, and economic groups with the notable exception of Black women. I stand with those women.

We all know that Kamala Harris was the better qualified and sane choice, however she was tied to an unpopular president, and the voters blamed his Administration for the economy (risen rent, grocery and gas prices, and the cost of living) and immigration. The Democrats would have lost no matter who was the pick.

Bernie Sanders is right. The Democrats are no longer the party of working people. It needs to project an alternative vision to that of this filth coming into office in January that addresses the problems of an economy that has shifted since the Cold War and 9/11 where the older solutions no longer work. The Democrats also must stand for the vulnerable who include undocumented, hardworking migrants (while still guaranteeing secure borders and strict immigration laws), racial, ethnic, gender, and sexual minorities.

We're past the point of being shocked by what comes out of this buffoon's mouth. Fight back against what he and his ilk do. Find and articulate an alternative vision.

Agree with R155. This loss was pure backlash. An unhappy electorate delivering a message. If more was at stake (and obviously it was) they either couldn't be convinced of it or were so angry they didn't care. It is infuriating, but real. If a Republican had been President, same thing. You know that old line attributed (wrongly apparently) to Churchill: America will always do the right thing, after it's tried everything else. Here we are.

It doesn't mean the Democrats can't do some thinking about the future. Right now, it seems to me Republicans are the factory setting at the national level. Maybe the (proven in the polls) disapproval of how Congress functions is so set the thinking it vote for the Republicans, they'll do nothing and cost less (which isn't true, but the perception is real.) Once - look at this chart - Democrats by and large dominated the presidency, the House and the Senate for sixty years between 1933 and 1993. Before that, Republicans did for thirty years between 1901 and 1931. Since '93, it see saws back and forth but looking at it, Republicans have held the majority in the House or Senate and held the presidency 23 times since 1993 (up to but not including this past week), while Democrats have held one or more of the three 15 times.

[quote]Congressman Seth Moulton is courageous in showing that lessons can be learned.

The learning doesn't extend to college campuses, apparently:

As Democrats try to distance themselves from the insane gender ideology that has been enforced on their parties, there will be a lot of pressure put on them by captured organisations like the university above but also the likes of John Oliver mentioned up the thread who will never admit they were wrong about boys in girls sports.

If the Democrats are savvy they'll sever support for that as soon as possible they can focus on other things going into the 2026 elections.

Actually, we should hope Trump quickly blunders with inflation/the economy. If he fucks that up quickly, Dems will definitely take back the House in 26 and maybe the Senate.

Of course, if that happens, the government will grind to a standstill.

[quote] As Democrats try to distance themselves from the insane gender ideology that has been enforced on their parties, there will be a lot of pressure put on them by captured organisations like the university above but also the likes of John Oliver mentioned up the thread who will never admit they were wrong about boys in girls sports.

I guess even Russian trolls are paying their $1.50

Dems don't need to change a thing. The minute they give an inch, the GOP will blame the Dems when it all goes wrong ("Hillary was against gay marriage!).

Stay the course. Wait two years. Do not change anything about policy.

Trump got the same vote he got in 2020. 15 million people, mainly Dems, didn't show up this time like they did in 2020.

People don't show up unless they feel threatened. Obviously, everything feels fine for them now.

When tariffs make prices rise and the economy falters, they will feel threatened and come out to vote again.

[quote] Actually, we should hope Trump quickly blunders with inflation/the economy.

He probably knows though that he would be able to make up for that by delivering on his promise to crack down severely on illegal immigration. He’s likely to focus on immigration as the easier win.

Economy/inflation trumps (no pun intended!) everything. People freak out about money more than anything.

If they really go the tariff route, (which I'm mostly thinking WON'T happen...it's just so stupid) once coffee, chocolate, tea and fruit/veg double in price, the shit will hit the fan.

Of course, kicking out the illegals is going to make fruit/veg scarce and pricey so that's definitely in the future.

Certainly part of "the problem" is that the "Lesson" which Dems must learn is pointed out on threads like this - so many lessons, so many lessons contradicting each other.

Fuck all of that. Dems must and will go forward. MAGA doesn't reflect and lick its wounds and point out the inherent contradictions in what Trump says and what MAGA believes. MAGA "presents" in the new digital forms and delivery with performative "strength and authenticity"... MAGA doesn't lick its wounds and self-lacerate and attack teammates like is happening in social media like this thread.

MAGA lucked out with world-wide inflation - 2% in the popular vote, 250,000 voters in the Blue Wall. What if Dems would have lost by much, much more if they'd done some things listed on this thread.

Grow some cojones, Dems. Forward, not back.

[quote]I guess even Russian trolls are paying their $1.50

If you really think a political party is going to do well pandering to gender extremists who think humans can change sex, men need abortions, women need prostate cancer checks, males should compete in female sports AND walk around naked in female locker rooms, that male rapists should be housed in women’s prisons and 4 year olds can choose a different ‘gender’ when they can’t write their own name or feed themselves, then good luck under successive right wing governments.

[quote]I guess even Russian trolls are paying their $1.50

Seriously, just go fuck yourself

[quote]MAGA lucked out with world-wide inflation - 2% in the popular vote, 250,000 voters in the Blue Wall. What if Dems would have lost by much, much more if they'd done some things listed on this thread.

This^^. Harris only lost the popular by 2.2%. That's not a giant loss by any usual measure, it only means a lot in this cycle due to who her opponent was. Her loss margins in the Blue Wall were also similarly small, and well within the margin of error in the polls. This wasn't a "giant blowout" by these standards. Dems knew they weren't winning the Senate, and hopefully will be within reach of the House majority when the final count is in.

The Dems aren't that far behind, there were errors that are correctable. A full on re-set isn't necessary here. Tweaking, and better tea-leaf reading (aka, read the public mood and react accordingly).

[quote] Meanwhile, billions are stolen by the Elon Musks of the world (also an imiigrant) and used to d eceive the public, and that is perfectly all right with this people.

What is it that Elon Musk is stealing, pray tell?

[quote] Her loss margins in the Blue Wall were also similarly small, and well within the margin of error in the polls. This wasn't a "giant blowout" by these standards.

That’s why they’re called battleground states. If there was a blowout, they wouldn’t be battleground states.

We don't need another Clinton.

We lost every battle ground state this year.

It wasn't close, either. No state went to a recount in the presidential race, Trump increased his margins across the board and millions of Dems stayed home.

So where's the win?

[quote]If there was a blowout, they wouldn’t be battleground states.

Truly I don't understand your point here. 2% loss... nationwide. You are agreeing that the characterization of the loss as "a blowout" is in error?

R172 Hon, it isn't that the topic was raised... Repubs spending $140 mil on the anti-trans ad with the dragqueens is significant just by the size of the ad buy and the focus group research that they did on it. The point is the intensity and form of your comment - i.e. you agree that trans folk are disgusting and evil and wanna beat the shit out of your children in bathrooms and athletic field. Eh?

[quote] The point is the intensity and form of your comment - i.e. you agree that trans folk are disgusting and evil and wanna beat the shit out of your children in bathrooms and athletic field. Eh?

It’s ok to admit you were wrong in supporting males in female sports. It’s okay. It’s okay to say ‘i was wrong about giving children hormone treatment to stunt their growth’. It’s okay to say ‘actually women should have their own spaces which men can’t just barge their way in to’.

And it’s okay to say lesbians aren’t men in pink and gay men aren’t transphobic because they don’t want to put their dick into a ‘bonus hole’.

It’s okay to drop these quasi religious policies that most normal people hate. It’s okay. They people affected will cope.

^^ "quasi religious" ?? Ok, the internet, the death of reason, and no purpose in engaging. Ok, then.

But all will be well, and all will be well, and every kind of thing will be well.

I'm not sure that's as true as you think. Harris did a lot of fear creating and it didn't move the needle. And she wasn't making it up. We're about to enter a period that cannot be underestimated in its potential to do lasting harm all over the world.

If she couldn't beat this guy there was no coming back from the national mood in this one.

[quote] I'm not sure that's as true as you think. Harris did a lot of fear creating and it didn't move the needle.

She said Trump will be a fascist. America hasn't experienced a fascist that fell flat.

She said that Trump will pass an abortion ban. Trump claimed he wouldn't. His denial was enough for them.

She didn't say much else that would scare people. Hordes of Trans people coming take your children is apparently something to fear, just like the thought of gay marriage was

[quote] The anti-trans sealed Kamala’s fate. She’s for the They/Them and wants Americans to pay for sex changes for criminals and illegals.

Well, I guess the joke is on MAGA. Trannies can always get sex work. The rest of America will starve.

Should they be passing out food, OP? Sending $1,200/mo.? Free childcare?

Biden erased their student loans and got no thanks.

[quote]She didn't say much else that would scare people. Hordes of Trans people coming take your children is apparently something to fear, just like the thought of gay marriage was

pox on them. they voted for a hateful ignorant man. if I haven't learned my lesson at 55, then so be it

The Dems shouldn't make any change in their stances. Don't give an inch.

Wait for the house to burn down and then get elected in to rebuild it. The midterms will be brutal to the GOP and then we'll have threads like "I have no confidence the GOP hasn't learned its lesson."

Well, Rahm knows how to raise money, that's a given. And they will need it.

He's also tough and skilled, going back to his days with the early Bill Clinton campaign way back in 1992...then again, he's been around since 1992 and isn't exactly the kind of fresh blood the party might need right now.

The Dems will be split on whether to go with fresh faces or go back to skilled, experience operatives. Not sure which would work best.

I'm good with Rahm for now. Like I'm good with Newsom being a face out front. We need some old-school thugs to be up to bat ... for a while anyway. "Events" (like US troops attacking US Citizens) might suggest other leads. If things are more normal, and the Dems come up to the mid-term with a plan, then other faces might well be in front.

This is shit. Cartoonish. But the Dems have to move forward... and soon.

“ For all of the "millions" of young people who hate Israel there are millions of other young voters who know that there is a war going on and are disgusted by the videos of people ripping down posters of kidnapped Americans and kidnapped babies.“

The crowd who cares about such babies, who BY THE WAY are still alive for the most part, unlike the children of Gaza, vote Republican anyways.

It’s important to know your target audience, and generation Z does make a huge difference.

Kamala received almost 5 million votes less than Biden.

[quote] Kamala received almost 5 million votes less than Biden.

Biden 2024 would have underperformed Biden 2020 by a greater margin. Kamala Harris was our best chance in 2024 -- she came as close to victory as any Democrat could have in 2024. There will be much second-guessing over the next 2-3 years. If Democrats try to pin this defeat on a candidate (other than Joe Biden) instead of the message and method we will lose again.

My point is R201, she did because of the Palestinian war.

Biden would have also lost, for the same reason.

Well there are Dems on tv now pointing out how bad trump and trumps nominations are. That should help right the ship for 2928.

The gop on the other hand won’t give a shit because they are gearing up for recess appointments.

Winners claim the spoils the losers bitch and moan. As has always been the case

[quote]Well there are Dems on tv now pointing out how bad trump and trumps nominations are. That should help right the ship for 2928.

Aren't you the optimist.

Yes and some mistakes end up being the correct choice. It’s possible those alive today who post on DL will never live to see a dem potus.

The game is changing, the rules will be changed, the Dems will be long time fucked because they will have little voice in the rules or who keeps score. And this time the gop will control the military. And the Congress. They will not be leaving the WH.

F. U. C. K. E. D.

I have plenty of confidence that DeFuctardo is the OP.

His overpowering stench is all over it and all throughout it.

[quote] Winners claim the spoils the losers bitch and moan. As has always been the case

Not always and not this time. Trump bitched and moaned for 4 years about a stolen election -- lie after treasonous lie -- it did not seem to hurt him. It is not normal. However, I agree that if Democrats go into atomic grievance mode for the next four years we will lose.

Well we can add jfk to the stolen election list. Thanks Chicago .

I guess the last legal election must have been Ike? Unless DL knows how that one was stolen as well.

Dems won't learn their lesson because both sides are on the same side, it's a class war. The rich want to stay in power at all costs and the working poor are the ones who are given distraction after distraction to make us think we have a chance to make something of ourselves.

Corporate dems will ALWAYS kiss the boot of whoever can protect their interests. I have no faith in them to do the right thing when they want the status quo to remain what it is. When Bernie suggested taxing millionaires, Obama was making midnight phone calls to get people like Jim Clyburn to endorse Biden during primaries when he was failing to secure delegates. They do things to manipulate an outcome and get us all riled up to fight other working class people so we don't focus on the true enemy, the class caste system.

R219 I am curious as to specifically what you will be doing as you move forward to turn this ass kicking we got around?

I plan to wait for the gop to fuck things up. And if they don’t we are not going to win anything next time,

[quote]Some major right-wing trollery going on right here.

No, it's just shit you don't want to hear. Go back to telling everyone how Gavin Newsom is a great candidate for president.

I don’t think he is R226, BUT…

01 - KAMALA ISN’T HIM. 02 - THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY CANNOT BE TURNED INTO UNHINGED DEPLORABLE CENTRAL, IT CAN’T SUCCUMB TO RIGHTWING DEMANDS BECAUSE THAT’S NOT WHAT WE WANT

03 - The Democrats can’t keep endlessly pandering to nasty “independents” who feel so outraged to hear republicans getting called garbage, but who don’t say a single thing when republicans are out there calling Puerto Ricans garbage, or calling Mexicans rapists, or calling gays and lesbians groomers. These kinds of “independents” who have mostly voted conservative can go fuck themselves.

Both Kamala and Newsom were MUCH BETTER OPTIONS THAN DUMP or any other Republicans.

After what Trump did in 2021 and after becoming a convicted felon and even after going through an impeachment process in 2020 there’s absolutely NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON to vote for him, or worse, turn him into the president of the USA again. It’s a crazy act.

The Democratic party must stay loyal to its voters and its values of decency instead of trying to appease shameless racists.

R233 It's medium not message... I think that's the lesson to be learned. Your #2 was Harris's pitch... relentlessly... staying on message no matter what.

But she sounded like a "politician".... that not only no longer works, it LOSES voters. People in this part of the 21st century want big personalities, speaking like a "regular" person, not a politician. TV hosts, podcasters, speaking "authentically"... I mean lying is fine and even expected., but the tone, presentation, affect have to be "authentic"... it's a different kind communication. I can't think of a big name Dem who has it... Newsom to a degree, Fetterman. It's why I think Jon Stewart would be a good candidate in 2028.

We're not going back... to politics as usual. Trump broke America (or America was already broken and Trump came to cash in).

[quote]People in this part of the 21st century want big personalities, speaking like a "regular" person, not a politician. TV hosts, podcasters, speaking "authentically"... I mean lying is fine and even expected., but the tone, presentation, affect have to be "authentic"... it's a different kind communication. I can't think of a big name Dem who has it.

Bernie Sanders, AOC, Fettermen

Only problem is none of them are electable for the Presidency

R231 does not realize that the USA is full of racists, xenophobes and homophobes.

And the Democratic party is NOT the place for them.

What you were trying to imply is that people wouldn’t have voted for Trump if only the democratic party had been a little bit more racist, a little bit more homophobic….

BUT if people are willing to elect a convicted felon who sounds like a Russian asset, then they were not willing to vote blue at all.

If anything the Democrats lost a few million votes because of what’s happening in Palestine.

Netanyahu was able to screw the democrats.

Bill Clinton claims the Dems did not listen. He said they should have listened, He told the Harris campaign the trans issue was going to back fire on them. And they ignored him. They left the issue to the GOP

So now we find that we won’t listen in the future if we disagree with those telling us shit because they are obviously racists, bigots, and homophobes.

We only want the pure. Not like a major party trying to win but like a small religious sect whose goal is not winning but being correct and pure of thought,

The bad people should all go vote for someone else. We don’t need the votes.

‘The trans thing’ includes

Insisting humans can change sex

That biological sex is a spectrum

That males have no competitive advantage over women in sports

That any male who identifies as a woman should be treated as a woman legally and socially and access all women’s spaces

That homosexuality is a genital preference

R41 What I found particularly frustrating is the number of Latinos who are first or second generation and choose to vote for Trump MP because he represents their conservative religious beliefs - anti gay, anti abortion.

It is sad that you do not like the freedoms women and gays have because your God taught you to hate, but if you vote against them, how can you not see you are also voting against yourself?

The Latinos I know personally that voted for trump are not anti gay . Not in the slightest. But they are not going around demanding support for the trans. And they are fed up with gay driven epidemics.

They may or may not be anti abortion. They are certainly pro family in a big way. And they are concerned about the porous border and crime x7

. And none of them go to church

They are the future of the GOP at one time they were the future of the DEMs

Though flagellating Democrats is a delight for Republicans, Democrats, and the New York Times, the Trump administration is following a classically disastrous route. Which is ignoring the voters who put you in power.

If prices and housing costs don’t go down, his non-proselytized voters will rebel, if the macro economy fails to grow, those who held their nose for their pocketbook will be demanding something else. If the white women who thought they’d be find can’t get birth control for their daughters, they’ll get over worrying about bathrooms.

[Quote] The Latinos I know personally that voted for trump are not anti gay .

They’re also not going to care when gay marriage is threatened.

Dems have to keep to their principles.

Just going with whatever cultural issue the GOP digs up will not gain Dems any more votes. The GOP will just pivot and find another—happens time after time.

Dems don’t need to hate and demonize like the GOP does constantly.

[Quote] And they are concerned about the porous border and crime x7

And the GOP pretended crime was out of control and were letting in all at the border.

To piggyback on R28’s comment

The term “Latino” is itself a creation of Anglo-Americans to designate people of Latin America in a way that is more inclusive because they felt it necessary to lump Brazilians in with Hispanics. Latino has no real meaning.

The lesson to learn is that hate wins votes. I hope Dems don’t go down that path.

Trump is also a cult figure. I doubt anyone else can excite the deplorables like he does

[Quote] Latinx… another great idea!

Spic is better!

There is also a lot of rose colored glasses, worn particularly by Gen Z. The amnesia is going to break when he gives another psycho inaugural speech, rambles in front of world leaders, and tries to deny real problems like Covid.

He got an exceptionally lucky period to be president in his first term and lost for failing at the one real challenge he faced. Maybe he’ll get that lucky again, but I’m skeptical. We’ll all pay for putting this idiot in the White House again,

R247 most people including the DL care about issues that impact them or their family or friends directly. I doubt that most Americans ever think about gay marriage in any way during a years time.

Although survey data shows that when asked by survey takers gay marriage gets more positive support than most issues Americans are asked about.

In fact gay marriage is one of the most popular issues in the US even among those identifying as GOP where it is almost half in favor.

Taking rights away once given ? That is a whole lot different than never giving the right.

Americans are more concerned with gay sexually transmitted diseases than gay marriage because one does not adversely impact them or their children in any possible way.

R250 Do you speak Spanish? Do you live or spend time in Spanish-speaking communities in the US (or anywhere in the Western Hemisphere)? "Latino" is the preferred term among all classes, all Spanish-speaking groups.. "Hispano" is sometimes used, but much more rarely . "Latinx" is an invention by the Academy, although largely adopted and disseminated there by latino academics. It has no meaning outside of the academy, and those who are moved by critical race theory, and as a conclusive critique (importantly) by the outrage-grievance industry who live to attack "woke" culture.

R243 Religion/values and Latinos: first generation latino immigrants may represent the long-time hope and observation of the right wing that "oh, eventually they'll be Republican because of their religion and beliefs about abortion, family, and gays" etc. In fact first generation stayed with Dems and the shift was among second, third, fourth generation... who were simply more like white working class voters. Like white non-college-educated voters many second and third gen latinos are evangelical, and in that sense their "religion" motivated them... but no more so than white voters. In short: second and third gen vote just like similar demographics among white voters.

[quote]Since Trump is branding the Repubs as the party of chaos and incompetence, Dems should position as the sane party. drop any extreme positions and then come back strong in 2026. I don’t think all Republicans are happy with Trump’s first two weeks as President elect.

Anecdotally, the friends/family I've spoken to who voted for Trump (most holding their noses, but that's a different thread) are already annoyed with him and turned off by many of these loser Cabinet/staff picks. "Here we go again" is one refrain I heard - well yeah, it was chaos the first time why wouldn't it be for the second go-round?

I think the lot of them are surprised by how early and out-of-the-gate the mess has been. He's not anywhere near Inauguration and he's already effing up, and going to extremist margins.

r246 is fairly spot on: anyone who isn't hardcore MAGA - ie. the independent "swingers" or persuadable rightwing, is going to grow highly tired of the usual Trumpy antics this early-on, if the administration doesn't deliver on the things it promised to them.

Securing the border, getting grocery prices down, keeping inflation stable, trying to assist with lowering crime in many of the cities - if no delivery on most of these, while instead Trump & Co. seem to expend all their energy on their own kooky/retributive agenda, look for a lot of restlessness.

Again, not referring to hardcore MAGA which will follow DT off a cliff. I mean the middle-ground people who all swung over on Nov 5th.

[quote] (2) talk directly about getting people affordable housing, groceries, healthcare, and childcare.

Yeah, because that worked so spectacularly this last time.

The is DL we don’t do that Latinx crap. We are far to busy discussing important things like how many colors in a flag and other really important issues that impact peoples actual lives..

Or the DL classic “ I am gay not a fucking queer”

We don’t go for silly labels

[quote]I've never heard anyone use Latinx in conversation who wasn't a republican making some stupid lie or other.

Democratic Senator and former Democratic Presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren uses it regularly:

Now that Republican Evangelicals have dumbed down the electorate, Demcrats need to learn how to market to those people who have been voting against their own interests.

Marketing to toopids is the challenge to Democrats.

[quote]Demcrats need to learn how to market to those people who have been voting against their own interests. Marketing to toopids is the challenge to Democrats.

Bill Clinton understood it. “I feel your pain!” While hitting on ugly fat women and avoiding his bitch wife.

[Quote] Of course, kicking out the illegals is going to make fruit/veg scarce and pricey so that's definitely in the future.

to say nothing of the scarcity of people to clean your toilet

They have not learned their lesson. Someone is going to wind up Nancy Pelosi like the fake Julie Andrews in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and she's going to spew some preprogrammed music box shit and people will listen to her when she should just settle down to her muppet botox and be content with retirement.

As long as Democrat boomers are alive, the Democrats will be a shit show.

[quote]The big move to Trump came from young voters 30 and under. Maybe the younger Dem voters are completely out of step with where most of their generation is. So listening to them isn’t a great idea either.

The new CBS poll shows that 65% of people under 30 approve of how Trump is handling the transition. That's the highest of any age group. It's 59% approval across all ages, so yes, that age group seems to be on the move.

Kamala will have learned the lesson that you can run for office for 8 years. The day after the inauguration, she should announce that she is running for the Democratic nomination. She can exert the same effect over the midterms, which most certainly will be ANOTHER referendum on Trump.

Who knows, maybe she can raise TWO billion this cycle.

[quote] The day after the inauguration, she should announce that she is running for the Democratic nomination

The party will dump her faster than it did Biden in 2024, and faster than it did the rest of the pack in favor of Biden in 2020. The party will dump a loser and go for whomever they think has the best chance of winning.

[quote]Completely out of touch if he wants to be the nominee of the working class.

All the "working class" sees Mar-a-Lago as the just deserts of their Hero. I think folks on the left (the credentialed subgroup) simply misunderstand the psychology of "the working class"...

[quote]The new CBS poll shows that 65% of people under 30 approve of how Trump is handling the transition. That's the highest of any age group. It's 59% approval across all ages, so yes, that age group seems to be on the move.

Gen Z is truly awful.

[quote]Funny that the GOP labels itself as the party of the working class when everything it it does when it’s in power is for the uber wealthy

Of course, but the GOP is effective at convincing people that "Democrats only care about trannies and illegal immigrants. We care about you!" Their policies are awful, but their messaging is great.

[quote]Of course, but the GOP is effective at convincing people that "Democrats only care about trannies and illegal immigrants. We care about you!" Their policies are awful, but their messaging is great.

With the Democratic Party having firmly adopted the anti-Spock philosophy of "the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many," it's not hard for the GOP to convince voters of what the Democrats care about.

ALL of MSNBC, David Pakman, and Brian Tyler Cohen, who among them cover millions of Democratic voter groups is pushing the demands of the Gender Identity Movement EVEN HARDER, now with the election of Congressperson McBride, even though they would have done much the same anyway!

All are demanding MAGA Mike Johnson to "tell me what a woman is!"

The problem is that American voters need no help telling us what a woman is and this will keep losing elections for Democrats for years to come!

R294 This is more than just being bad at messaging. There have been real and tangible consequences implemented on a sociopolitical scale that doesn't go unnoticed to the average citizen.

A perfect example of this is the haphazard way with which DEI has been adopted in the workplace and technology. This is not an argument against DEI. I do find it necessary, but I don't think it's been applied in a way that nurtures unity and inclusion but the exact opposite. The Democratic party has been at the forefront of this movement because they've built their platform on it.

Even AI programs that generate images have fallen prey to this and what it's done is caused DEI, as a concept, to be tainted and an easy target for naysayers. See the below linked reddit thread for a snippet involving AI outright refusing to generate images of White people when prompted.

There is an effective way for these matters to be introduced on governmental and social level. Sadly, the Democratic party just went overboard and lost both the plot and this election as a result.

Democrats just went overboard on their woke ideology. Probably because they only talk to themselves. The end result is real damage to the Party. It’s scary when a psychopath like Trump is more connected to average people than most Dems.

MSNBC thinks doubling down on trans issues is a good idea? wow…they NEVER get anything right.

Populism is pervading everything now... including threads like this.

The American/Western Democratic experiment is (was?) that all humans have rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Who deserves those rights, in the experiment, are not only for those that win the approval and support of the majority in a culture.

What an idea..................... it was.

[quote]Harris didn’t run on woke issues or identity politics so that was a positive.

She did by default.

This is Kamala just 4 years ago.

This is Marxism defined.

[quote] Who deserves those rights, in the experiment, are not only for those that win the approval and support of the majority in a culture.

Should a small minority be allowed to dictate to the majority what the culture should be?

[quote] by highlighting and magnifying comments from years ago.

Not true. The trans/identity movement has been unbelievably vocal for the past 4 years and the Dems have done nothing but encourage them, suggesting that anyone who disagrees is an utter idiot, a phobic, a racist and a Nazi. Right here on the DL the TQ+ screaming has been deafening, and that's happening now. And don't you dare say anything against it or you'll go to thought prison. Sooner or later that had to give and this GOP victory may be the first step toward disassembling all that nonsense.

Fixed unclickable YouTube short video from r303 is below:

Sidebar Tip: If on a desktop computer, click on the comments, then click on the time it was posted (i.e. 4 years/months/days/etc ago), it will then go to the default YouTube view. Use the share link from that page instead to share on DL.

If you're wondering how I'm getting the actual link even though it's not clickable, I'm using the "Inspect Element" option on my browser from a desktop computer and finding the actual YouTube link from. You are welcome.